Talk:Elo rating system/@comment-188.99.248.33-20110812113755/@comment-3360527-20110819044218
@Anon above Thorn: I read what you posted and it is flawed. "Elo is just recording and not judging your personal skill. This means, unbalanced heros, setups and LoL as a program itself are also counting. Unbalanced heros, days with massive server lags are not the players fault, but it influences the game and the result will be recorded in his Elo." *That is true for any system that rates people in one form or another, including Chess' original ELO system. Unbalanced heroes (champions) are available to both sides plus there is a ban list, no imbalance. Server lag affects all games and not just the 'Elo hell' games so that point is moot. "Chess is a single-player game which offers exactly the same rules for both sides: Identical figures, rules, symetric "map". Since in LoL each figurine offers a different ruleset (champions' skills), the rules and thus restricitions are not the same. In addition a chessgame is not played by 5 players who stick to just one figure. Considering additionally that the vast chioce of heros is mostly restricted, each player owns a different and thus superior or inferior pool of champs. At most there are 81 (number of champions as of patch 1.0.0.123) different and non-equal rulesets. The influence of team-setups, impact of runes to different champions and restricted champion-pools amplifies the number of rulesets dramatically. In short: each player uses a different "ruleset"." *From ELO entry of wikipedia: It is also used as a rating system for multiplayer competition in a number of computer games,1 and has been adapted to team sports including association football, American college football and basketball, and Major League Baseball. If it can be adapted to such multiplayer games such as basketball and football. Its used in Guild Wars to rate their GvG matches. If this rating system can be applied to such diverse games that all have constantly changing and variable 'rules' then why does it break down for LoL? I've never heard of ArenaNet's GvG rating system being broken or there being an elo hell for GvGs when I played GW and yet all the same arguments you're using here can be applied there. Why can't skill also include the ability to "adapt and overcome" changing circumstances as they arise? A living, fluid game does not make it a flawed system. "Each champion is balanced differently. Thus players who play an overpowered char will win more often even if they are less skilled. And this will be recorded in the Elo. The team setup as well has a huge impact. E.g. skilled player know about the worth of supporter champs. "The sum is greater than the parts" - low elo player don't act like this and thus even high-skilled player will act much worse with a supporter than usually. On different Elo-levels the effectivness of champions may vary, especially supporter." *Then its up to the player to play according to his level. Said "OP champion" is open to all players so if you're getting destroyed by said guy, ban him or pick him. Better yet, counter-pick to focus on the other team's weakness. If you can't tank or support at your level, then carry or counter-pick your team to victory. If you're high enough where team comp matters, then change strategies accordingly. Play to what your ELO is at, not to where you want to be and be mindful of the change as you climb up (or fall down). Changes to the meta at different ratings doesn't mean its ELO hell. It means different strategies work differently. ADAPT. "Due to the fact that the formula include non-influencable parts of the game, there are mechanics which will raise the chance to loose beside bad skill. Thus the Elo-hell exists as long as the player don't study the formula and understand the parts which influences the chance to win beside "skill"." *The only thing the formula takes into account is your current rating, the expected outcome based on the ratings of those involved and the rating of the other team. Also, what "non-influencable parts of the game" and "mechanics" that will increase the chances of you losing? Anything that can happen to you that causes you to lose (e.g. lag) has an equal chance to cause the other team to lose instead, giving you the win. If you're using an unreliable ISP, then maybe you shouldn't be playing ranked games or accept that it will affect you negatively at times. That is your choice to play ranked when you know you might lag or D/C. "Since the chess-Elo always refers to the same ruleset, the Elo-system in LoL should do the same." *LoL doesn't use chess-Elo, they use a modified version adapted for gaming just like all of the other competative games/sports that use some variety of Elo. Also, chess doesn't account for the multitudes of different possible openings and choice branches that come from that. Do chess players have to play X different games where X is the number of different ways each player could have moved? "The final conclusion is, that the Elo-hell is a mixture out of the results of a trivial and unfitting mathematical formula and the players lack of understanding of the formulas outcome. The Elo-hell fades out the more the player knows about the formula, what is counted and how he can personally improve his "ruleset" to be more competitive." *The mathmatical formula isn't trival and is widely accepted among a massively diverse set of applications, with modifications to fit each application. LoL is no different. How does not understanding that: *Higher rated team wins = low elo gains and losses to all *Lower rated team wins = large elo gains and losses to all change somebody's ability to climb the ladder? Knowledge of how the math works doesn't change how many points you get.